I have been just swamped with work lately—because there continues to be a huge need for public health planning and programs, even if the government would like to believe otherwise—and the public health news has been coming fast and furious. It’s been too long since the last update and it’s time to start catching up!
I’m going to do it in installments. For this first installment, let’s talk about the HHS-related hearings before Senate Finance Committee, chaired by Senator Mike Crapo (R-ID), and the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (the “HELP” committee, chaired by Senator Bill Cassidy (R-LA)).
I don’t know how many of you watched the hearing where RFK Jr. appeared before the Senate Finance Committee on September 4. As one editor from STAT said, “I have watched a lot of congressional hearings for a very, very long time. This is one of the most extraordinary hearings I have ever seen.” There were multiple moments of 😵💫 and😲and 😳.
If you didn’t watch, it was contentious right from the start. After Chairman Mike Crapo’s opening remarks, Ranking member Senator Ron Wyden (D-OR) asked Sen. Crapo to formally swear Kennedy in as a witness, saying “It’s unfortunate I have to say this, but this is a witness who has lied to members of the Senate Finance Committee. In response to over 35 written questions, including from me, he said—and I quote—that he would ‘do nothing as HHS Secretary that makes it difficult or discourages people from taking vaccines.’ That was clearly not true. His unprecedented unilateral actions to restrict to COVID vaccines, that alone proves it. He tried to fire the Senate-approved CDC director after she chose the truth over what I consider his delusions.” Crapo responded that he “will personally object and will reject” Wyden’s request. He also said, “We’re having partisan disagreements right now, and I am having partisan disagreements with you on your characterization of the facts,” and Wyden replied that “this committee’s unwillingness to swear this witness is basically a message that it is acceptable to lie to the Senate Finance Committee about hugely important questions like vaccines.” 😳
Here are a few highlights over the next 3+ hours, which involved shouting matches and an unapologetic show of disregard for the senators by RFK Jr.:
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Sen. Michael Bennet (D-CO) said “you told the American people that you were, quote, ‘Going to bring great people onto the ACIP panel, not anti-vaxxers.’ Are you aware that one of the people you put on the panel, Dr. Robert Malone, claimed that the commonly used mRNA, the vaccine, ‘Causes a form of AIDS,’ and can damage children’s, ‘Brains, their heart, their immune system, and their ability to have children in the future?’” Yes or no, Mr. Kennedy?’” RFK Jr. responded, “Dr. Malone is one of the inventors of the mRNA vaccine, so he knows a lot more about it than I do.” Bennet then fired back, “Mr. Chairman, that statement is not true, that Dr. Malone made, just as it wasn’t true when you wrote that, quote, ‘African AIDS is entirely different from Western AIDS.’ Are you aware that another one of these new members, Dr. Levi, wrote that, quote, ‘Evidence is mounting and indisputable that mRNA vaccines cause serious harm, including death, especially among young people?’ Yes or no, are you aware that he said that?” And RFK responded “I wasn’t aware he said it, but I think I agree with it.” (Bennet then exclaimed “You agree with it?! It’s not true!” RFK Jr. subsequently demanded of Sen. Bennet, “Are you saying that the mRNA vaccine has never been associated with myocarditis or pericarditis in teenagers? Is that what you’re trying to tell us?” And after that they got into a shouting match about who was asking the questions at this hearing. 😳)
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Then it was Sen. Cassidy’s turn, and he opened by saying “I believe that President Trump deserves a Nobel Prize for Operation Warp Speed…An incredible accomplishment. Mr. Secretary, do you agree with me that the president deserves a Nobel Prize for Operation Warp Speed?” RFK Jr. responded, “Absolutely, Senator.” Cassidy then raised RFK’s cancelling of the $500 million in contracts for mRNA research, noting it “seems like a commentary…what the President did in Operation Warp Speed, which is to create a platform by which to create vaccines. So this just seems inconsistent that you would agree with me, the President deserves a tremendous amount of credit for this.” RFK, recognizing that this was of course a trap designed to drive a wedge between Trump and his HHS Secretary, fired back, “Is this a question, Senator Cassidy, or is this the speech you don’t want me to answer?” 😲
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Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA) then asked “Do you accept the fact that a million Americans died from COVID?” RFK Jr. responded, “I don’t know how many died.” Warner said, “You’re the Secretary of Health and Human Services, you don’t have any idea how many Americans died from COVID?” RFK said, “I don’t think anybody knows that because there was so much data chaos coming out of the CDC.” Now this is just rude, in addition to exposing RFK Jr.’s absurd ignorance on this topic. The CDC’s National Center for Health Statistics has been regularly producing detailed data on this issue on a public-facing dashboard, which you yourself can see here. (Spoiler alert: as of August 30, 2025—the last complete week immediately before RFK Jr’s hearing—the official number of people in the United States with COVID-19 listed as a primary or contributing cause of death on their death certificate was 1,234,757. So the only appropriate answer to the question Warner posed was “yes.”)
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Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-NH) said “Scientists…said they wanted to brief you on the science, scientists who wanted to understand why the FDA…unilaterally changed the parameters for giving vaccines, making it possible…that they’re going to have to go off-label—“ and RFK Jr. interrupted with “This is crazy talk. You’re just making stuff up.” 😲That quickly devolved into Hassan saying “I’m not making stuff up!” and Kennedy saying “You’re just making stuff up!” back and forth to each other until Hassan said “Sometimes when you make an accusation it’s kind of a confession, Mr. Kennedy.” It got worse from there. Feel free to check the transcript.
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Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) said “Did you tell the head of the CDC that if she refused to sign off on your changes to the childhood vaccine schedule that she had to resign?” RFK Jr: “No, I told her that she had to resign because I asked her, ‘Are you a trustworthy person?’ And she said, ‘No.’” 😵💫He then said to Warren, “A month ago you were voting against her because you thought she was either incompetent, ineligible or unsuited to the task and now I agree with you.” And Warren responded, “I voted against her because I was afraid she was going to bend the knee to you and Donald Trump and it looks like she didn’t bend the knee so you fired her.”
The hearing also ended remarkably: As the Ranking Democrat, Sen. Wyden was given an opportunity for closing remarks. As he was talking, RFK Jr. took out his phone and began scrolling. 😲 When Wyden finished by asking if there was anything Kennedy hadn’t had a chance to say, he responded, “I think I’ll have mercy on everybody and let us adjourn.”
A week later there was a new hearing, this time with testimony in front of the Senate HELP Committee. This time it wasn’t with RFK Jr, it was with Dr. Susan Monarez (former CDC Director until she was fired) and Dr. Deb Houry (former Chief Medical Officer of CDC, who resigned along with 2 other colleagues immediately following Monarez’s dismissal).
When Dr. Monarez read her planned testimony, she noted two key things: (1) that on August 19th Secretary Kennedy’s office sent her a directive that all CDC policy and personnel decisions could no longer be made by her without prior approval from political staff appointed by RFK Jr. (highly unusual), and (2) that on the morning of August 25th (the day she was fired), RFK Jr. “demanded two things of me that were inconsistent with my oath of office and the ethics required of a public official. He directed me to commit in advance to approving every ACIP recommendation, regardless of the scientific evidence. He also directed me to dismiss career officials responsible for vaccine policy without cause. He said if I was unwilling to do both, I should resign.”
During the question period HELP Committee Chair Sen. Cassidy (R-LA) asked her, “Now, Secretary Kennedy told the finance committee that he did not ask you to pre-approve, but that you were biased against the new ACIP and he just asked you to keep an open mind. Did he cite any data or science as relates to the potential ACIP recommendations to persuade you to support them?” Monarez responded, “He did not have any data or science to point to. As a matter of fact, we got into an exchange where I had suggested that I would be open to changing childhood vaccine schedules if the evidence or science were supportive. And he responded that there was no science or evidence associated with the childhood vaccine schedule and he elaborated that CDC had never collected the science or the data to make it available related to the safety and evidence.” To that, Cassidy said, “To be clear, he said there was not science or data, but that you still expected you to change the schedule?” And Monarez answered, “Correct.”
Later, Sen. Alsobrooks (D-MD) asked about the gunman who opened fire at CDC headquarters on August 8th. “Did you receive a call from the secretary upon the first reports that an active shooter on CDC headquarters had shot at employees?” she asked. Monarez responded, “I did not speak to the secretary on the 8th or any successive day. I did not speak to the secretary until August 11th when he came down to visit.” Alsobrooks said, “So are you telling me that the Secretary of Health and Human Services failed to even give you a courtesy call upon learning that employees there had been shot at?” And Monarez responded, “He did not call me.”
During her planned remarks, Dr. Houry—again, CDC’s Chief Medical Officer—testified, “I first learned that the Secretary had changed our CDC COVID vaccine guidance on an X social media post. CDC scientists have still not seen the scientific data or justification for this change. That is not gold standard science. The Secretary’s office ordered the removal from our website of the CDC scientific document on thimerosal, an additive to vaccines that science has shown is not linked to autism, while allowing an unvetted presentation on thimerosal to happen at ACIP, containing scientific assertions that were not assessed for data quality and bias. That kind of last-minute alteration undermines confidence and the deliberations that follow, and is certainly not radical transparency.”
Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) Dr. Houry how HHS’s responses to the measles outbreak earlier this year differed from past experiences. Dr. Houry responded, “First, I never briefed the Secretary, as did the center director who oversaw measles, never briefed the Secretary. An outbreak response, usually you would be briefing leadership. The second thing is he said things like vaccines had fetal parts and I had to send a note to our leadership team to correct that misinformation. We were also asked to include things like budesonide and clarithromycin in our toolkits for physicians and I couldn’t allow that as there wasn’t evidence for that and would result in harm.”
Iin an interaction with Sen. Moody (R-FL), Dr. Houry noted “I’m the last or I was the last career left in the office of the director. I have no doubt that my role will be replaced by a political.” Moody stopped her, saying, “You’re the last career, so then are you saying that everyone that is remaining is a political… there must be somebody that is providing that career science then.” Houry clarified that everyone in the office of the CDC director is now a political, going on to say, “A level down, we do have center directors, although 80% are now acting because they’ve been fired, resigned, or retired.” Then Moody turned to Dr. Monarez: “Dr. Monarez, were you ever directed to not speak to career officials? Was that a directive that you received?” Monarez: “That was… I was directed to only work with the political appointees that he had put in place at CDC. And not to speak or work with the career scientists.”
Let’s be clear. This is not how it’s supposed to work. The fact that this is how it’s working is not a good thing. CDC is (used to be?) one of the premier scientific health institutions in the world, with many thousands of career scientists who have devoted their lives to public health, medicine, and saving lives. Sure, many of them have political jobs. But “politicals” are people who are there to serve the bidding of politicians, not there to preserve scientific integrity. Politicals have politicians’ best interests in mind, and most people I’ve ever interacted with at CDC have the best interests of the American people in mind.
It’s not the responsibility of the HHS Secretary to know every data point and be an expert on every shred of scientific evidence. It’s the responsibility of the HHS Secretary to support career scientists at CDC to know those things, and to listen to what they have to say. It’s to ensure that CDC puts out guidance and recommendations and funding that follows the scientific evidence. It’s to call and demonstrate that you care about the staff in your Department when a gunman fires hundreds of rounds at them, not to call them “horrible people.”
In the HELP Committee hearing, Senator Alsobrooks said that RFK Jr. sounded “unhinged.” Call him what you want, he’s damaging our health by pushing his own unscientific agenda. CDC scientists deserve better, as do all of us. It’s time for him to go.